Heartbreakers

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

Does a dragon's heart have the same number of chambers like a mammal or like reptile?

Drakel · **Posted:** Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:12 pm

I bet my money on reptile lol. Kind of logical that a dragon has more of a reptile like heart but then again we all have no clue so it's a 50/50 bet.

alondor · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:06 am

i think it would depend on the type of dragon. or there is also the possibility that they match neither. the logic behind this statement is that we have not considered the possibilty that dragons are entirely different group in and of themselves

Drakel · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:14 am

I agree with Alondor on that statement. Dragons Should be considered a different group however like I said if I had to pick only between mammal or reptile heart chambers I would pick reptile for a few logical reasons that is every one should already know.

Tempest · **Joined:** Mon May 16, 2005 11:22 pm **Posts:** 355

A reptile heart have an incomplete partition between the two ventricles. For this reason, oxygenated and deoxygenated blood are mixed together to different degrees. It wouldn't be very practical for dragons to have this kind of heart as they are a lot more active (in flight for example) than reptiles.

Moreover, a 4 chambers heart is probably the most efficient system for an evolved creature, it's basically two efficient pumps fused together; one pumping oxygenated toward the organs and muscles, and another pumping deoxygenated blood toward the lung. In terms of "what is possible", it would be possible to have these two pumps separated from each other or having a creature with two hearts that pump blood in different sections of the body. But I don't think having a heart with more than 4 chambers would make a lot of sense, unless someone has a specific structure in mind?

Drakel · **Posted:** Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:05 pm

.... ummm.... :shock:

.... TEMP?..... is here?..... on the Dragon Discussions?..... ????..... WTF????.... Never thought you were interested because well.... :shock:

.....?????..... WOW.... this is unexpected..... he even done better than any my notes could ever say..... :shock:

.... I had a similar theory like that but.....

you topped it..... I was thought we were only supposed to pick one or the other.....

..... I AGREE WITH TEMP 100% ON THIS ONE!

(first topic that actually made my jaw drop.)

alondor · **Posted:** Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:20 pm

of course tempest would post in the dragon related section he is one of the creators of it after all.

But here is my thing, why does the heart have to be four chambers? is there a problem mechanically with a different number or something?

Drakel · **Posted:** Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:23 pm

I know he created it but .... never thought he was ACTUALY interested in dragons. Just thought he wanted to see other's ideas on the subject or wanted to see if there is any science in it. Only because out the hundred topics about dragons raptor made and all the topics I posted in, this was the only one he actually posted on.

Forgotten Dragon's Ire · **Posted:** Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:29 pm

Um if temp wasn't "actually" interested in dragons why would the entire theme of the board and affiliated website be entirely about dragons

Drakel · **Posted:** Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:34 pm

Quote:

to see other's ideas on the subject or wanted to see if there is any science in it.

Will this answer your question?

ppl done the exact same thing as what my quote ses and yet not give a d :swear:

about dragons.

you'll understand why I thought this by how little temp posts about dragons with us, or wanted just to see our opinions.

Now let’s get back to the topic shall we? :offtopic:

vampirehunter42 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:19 am

on the heart thing tempest sounds like he has the right idea.

But by the sounds of it you need to check out the main site.
http://www.colba.net/~tempest/

Drakel · **Posted:** Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:22 am

O_O I been on that site be for yet I didn't join from it.(I clicked on a link but I don’t remember where) LOL I feel so stupid cause that is one of the main sites I look at.

alondor · **Posted:** Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:27 am

Either way, back to topic. Can anyone tell me why a different number of chambers is not discussed? I can see a dragon having a five chamber one to get the oxyginated blood where it needs to go. Is this illogical or ami missing something?

vampirehunter42 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:01 pm

Why would it need that is my main thought? As tempest posted, it is about efficiency. The 4 chambered heart found in mammals and the surviving archosaurs. (birds and crocodilians) And has worked very well to get blood going in hard working animals. A 5th chamber would really get in the way and really mess with the rhythm of the heartbeat.

Tempest · **Joined:** Mon May 16, 2005 11:22 pm **Posts:** 355

Drakel wrote:

I know he created it but .... never thought he was ACTUALY interested in dragons. Just thought he wanted to see other's ideas on the subject or wanted to see if there is any science in it.

I am (very) interested in dragons and I do want to see others' ideas on the subject discussed around here. It's just that I'm not here as much as I would like to

But I'm making some progress on that point.

Dragon444 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:09 pm

The four chamber heart works relativel simply when you think about it in a engineer's or biologist's mindset.

One ventricle has two chambers, as one compresses, the other expands and the little (I can't remember the word for it so this will have to do) opening between said chambers opens. The pressure then equalizes. After the pressure is equalized, the opening seals again and the process reverses, with the compressed chamber expanding and the expanded chamber compressing.

Technically the two ventricles could be seperate organs (effectively creating "2" hearts). Why this has not happened in nature, I don't know (I don't think anyone does, but I'll look into it). It would be interesting to see something like this though.

As to the 5 (or more) chambered heart. What would the "extra" chambers be for? As far as I can tell, it would only hinder the efficiency of a 4 chamber heart.

Forgotten Dragon's Ire · **Posted:** Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:44 pm

yes simple is usually better because complicated things have a higher chance to fail

Corva · **Joined:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:05 pm **Posts:** 1657

Hmmm... perhaps a six chambered heart would be able to have a pair of chambers for each lung. Similar to a 4 chambered heart, except that the blood only picks up the oxygen from one of the lungs.

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