"Blue Moon"

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

Could someone tell me some facts about Amphirties and/or sea dragons?

Drakel · **Posted:** Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:57 pm

dragon! or a deformed dragon to say the least. (don't realy think it is a snake cause it has wings)

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

I don't think much about them beside their are no stories I am aware of that talks about them getting slay by knight and that the mayans like to decorate their buildings with them.

Drakel · **Posted:** Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:12 am

not all dragons are slain by knights. Example the Chinese believe the dragons to be a holy symbol if you think about it. (most Chinese dragon stories have good not evil dragons in them)

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

What tales are about them? And facts are about them?

Drakel · **Posted:** Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:21 am

mainy (realy want me to go through all those storys -_-) and not so mainy facts without useing the word magic in them.

Corva · **Joined:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:05 pm **Posts:** 1657

Are you looking for facts in the commonly used sense, or mythological 'facts'?

Drakel · **Posted:** Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:38 pm

a little of both

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

Never mind just delete all of this.

I just wanted to know more about the so-called "feathered dragons." And I wasn't sure which way to check first.

Falconer · **Posted:** Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:14 pm

Well, legends say the Ampitheres are a type of dragon with feathered wings - an oddity in the reptilian world, hinting that dragons are not, in fact, reptiles, resemblance aside.
As with much of dracology, very few "facts" are known, only what has been passed down through stories and art.

Sea dragons are usually equated with sea serpents, large and legendary creatures of the deep. Reported at immense sizes, sea serpents represented one of the few unconquered and perilous aspects of nature: the sea.

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

Yes, and they (ampitheres) are very pretty with their feathers, but if they were to lose them would they be unable to fly? And do all of them have feathers?

As for the sea dragon part, what about leviathan? There seems to be a detailed image of one in Job, all the way to the way it skin looked.

Falconer · **Posted:** Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:34 pm

No idea.

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

Just tell all you know about them, or give me the name of a story with one in it.

Falconer · **Posted:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:42 pm

Well, for starters Leviathan is not a sea creature. No sea creature would evolve the ability to breathe fire. Plus, specific mention is made of fighting Leviathan with a sword. I don't know about the rest of you, but I never fish with a sword.

True sea serpents are a pretty common myth... often thought to be oarfish or sea snakes that have grown to unusual size. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_serpent

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

So, why is leviathan called "king of the sea"?

Falconer · **Posted:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:58 pm

He isn't. At least, not in the Bible. He might be called that in non-canon books, but said books were usually excluded for a reason. If there is a verse calling him that, I am unaware of it.

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

He? Don't you mean she? I read that it was a female.

Behemoth also appears in the Apocryphal Book of Enoch, giving the following description of this monster's origins there mentioned as being male, as opposed to the female Leviathan:

"And that day will two monsters be parted, one monster, a female named Leviathan in order to dwell in the abyss of the ocean over the fountains of water; and (the other), a male called Behemoth, which holds his chest in an invisible desert whose name is Dundayin, east of the garden of Eden." - 1 Enoch 60:7-8

Forgotten Dragon's Ire · **Posted:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:08 pm

Okay just pointing out that you said

aquadraca wrote:

So, why is leviathan called "king of the sea"?

so it seems you contradict yourself when you say this

aquadraca wrote:

He? Don't you mean she? I read that it was a female.

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

Don't worry about that first part, just answer the second.

Forgotten Dragon's Ire · **Posted:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:33 pm

I did a little searching and this is what i found i'm sorry but it said he was male

Leviathan has the following attributes according to Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1. This is only a partial listing—just enough to make the point.

* “No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up.”
* “Who can open the doors of his face, with his terrible teeth all around?”
* “His rows of scales are his pride, shut up tightly as with a seal; one is so near another that no air can come between them; they are joined one to another, they stick together and cannot be parted.”
* “His sneezings flash forth light, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. Out of his mouth go burning lights; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke goes out of his nostrils, as from a boiling pot and burning rushes. His breath kindles coals, and a flame goes out of his mouth.”
* “Though the sword reaches him, it cannot avail; nor does spear, dart, or javelin. He regards iron as straw, and bronze as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee; slingstones become like stubble to him. Darts are regarded as straw; he laughs at the threat of javelins.”
* “On earth there is nothing like him, which is made without fear.”
* Leviathan “played” in the “great and wide sea” (a paraphrase of Psalm 104 verses 25 and 26—get the exact sense by reading them yourself).
* Leviathan is a “reptile [a] that is in the sea.” (Isaiah 27:1)

[a] Note: The word translated “reptile” here is the Hebrew word tanniyn. This shows that “Leviathan” was also a “tanniyn” (dragon).

And i also found this as well

In the targums and Rabbinic literature the "great whales" (KJV, but "tannin" in the Hebrew) in Genesis 1:21 are said to be the Leviathan and its mate. Leviathan, the gliding serpent is male, and Leviathan, the winding serpent is female according to Reb. Judah. God castrated the male and killed the female preserving her in the salt water for the righteous to eat in the world to come (Bowker 1979, 104; see 2 Ezra, also called 4 Ezra 6:49,52: 2 Baruch 29:4 in Charlesworth 1983).

Falconer · **Posted:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:01 am

Isaiah 27 refers to Leviathan and the "dragon in the sea". It's not specified if they are the same thing. Psalm 104, however, does seem kind of definitive. Thanks Ire.

Still begs the question, why would Leviathan breathe fire if he/she was a sea creature? I'm just wondering.

Forgotten Dragon's Ire · **Posted:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:09 am

No problem Falconer

Well the only explanation i can think of for why it might breathe fire is that maybe people just assumed it was a strictly water creature maybe it just lived on an island and when people came near it attacked or some such

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

Maybe, or it could of have a gland like Crocs have, at the back of their thoarts to shut water out of it and stop the fire from scoarching it.

Oh, and that quote is from the book of Enoch.

And I have to say on the recond why I keep asking question about these two : They are werid!

I don't understand some of the verses.

Bethemoths is the first in the ways of God and when leviathan rises fear is turn into joy.

I don't get that.

Falconer · **Posted:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:01 pm

There's a lot of really weird stuff in the apocryphal books, occasionally self-contradictory. Personally I think the Book of Enoch is a fake, but that's just me.
I have some pretty strong Christian views, so bear with this explanation.

Behemoth and Leviathan are two species, not individuals- behemoth being a form of sauropod, and leviathan a fire-being dragon. As an herbivore (plant eater), behemoth would be non-aggressive in nature and therefore something to marvel at. Leviathan, a natural predator of man, would be held in awe as well as fear.

I looked up the passage in Enoch that refers to Leviathan... it's a bunch of malarkey.

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