RE: frost dragons : Forgotten question

Drakel · **Posted:** Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:10 pm

hmmm.. interesting. plausable. very plausable indeed ( FROST DRAGON TOPIC is alive again, kinda cought my eye and I wonder what is every one's ideas.reading falconer's theary I don't truely think it is as (dragon) as I would have hoped. I also wonder what every ones thearys are on the subject.

Drakel · **Posted:** Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:23 pm

I agree with your (a special gland) to protect a dragon's body(neck) idea but again would the dragon's breath be a mist like substance or breath a liquid like substance. ( I believe mist like)

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

i think they are in between water and mountain dragons. maybe they can stain the cold by being in sepented amimation, when it gest too cold, which is why they don't have much contact with humans. i guessing their are snow white, or clearish color to blend in with there surroundings. these dragons might be a sub-speices of mountain dragons. or one of water dragons who like colder waters. whichever, take your pick.

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

i think it's gas, like nitrogen.

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

nitrogen has the power to freezes. i think it is in gasous form. dragons with the this ability i think are variations of mountain dragons. they might also be variations of earth dragons, take you pick.

Drakel · **Posted:** Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:36 pm

mountain ( AKA european)earth would actualy be like a chinese dragon types for mainy {logical} reasons

Drakel · **Posted:** Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:45 pm

I like the sub-speices of mountain dragons idea couse I kinda think that water dragons are a sub-speices of mountain dragons as well.

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

i also thinks they have the ability to turn off their virtals off (sepention amimation) when the weather gets to cooooooooooooold for them to handle. then sense when conditions are favorble, they come out of it.

vampirehunter42 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:17 pm

There will be only one.....

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

there might be a small, tiny, tiny tinypopulation breeding indivduals. thanks to global warming, they might becoming extinct. or we killed off one by one. which works, either way it's all our fault. domion speices my foot!

Forgotten Dragon's Ire · **Posted:** Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:00 am

Please read this entire post to its entirety before answering as this might raise questions and hopefully will answer some for you drakes

ok here is my theory on how they hold the freezing substance until they want to freeze something without freezing the insides of their bodies and killing themselves

I recently asked my teacher about some endothermic reactions that used liquids that could safely be stored in a special gland and she said that if one pouch had sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate and the other water then when they mixed it would create the freezing compound

the only thing is i do not know how cold this substance will get but i think my theory of two glands holding two separate SAFE substances UNTIL combined is i think the most logical setup

i am currently researching possible endothermic reactions that would be safe until needed and any help from you guys would be great

Here are some more endothermic reactions that might work
Ammonium Nitrate mixed with water
Potassium chloride mixed with water
the thing is i still don't know how cold it will get or if they can be safely stored within the glands without killing themselves if say they are toxic or corrosive

I do know that this substance(Solid barium hydroxide reacted with solid ammonium thiocyanate) will get to -20 to -30 degrees Celsius but i also know that barium hydroxide at least is highly toxic and corrosive o i high doubt that the dragon could hold that in any gland without killing itself

Another thing i forgot to mention is i don't know how any dragon would be able to get a hold of any of these substances naturally but there must be some endothermic reactions that can get very cold with safe substances until mixed and easily accessed to creatures without science labs

Falconer · **Posted:** Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:13 pm

Well, water's pretty easy to find. There's one.

Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate? That's... um... a sodium/sulfur compound hydrogen bonded to water. While I don't know off the top of my head how to make it, both sodium and sulfur exist in nature.

Ammonium nitrate is I think common in nature, as is potassium chloride. Could be wrong on the ammonium nitrate, I do know it's in the lab a lot.

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

Forgotten Dragon's Ire wrote:

Please read this entire post to its entirety before answering as this might raise questions and hopefully will answer some for you drakes

why does everybody have to pick on me? :cry:

i have a right to my own opionion.

Drakel · **Posted:** Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:52 pm

cause we evil lol jk)
no one is picking on you but every one is pushing you to see more on your point of veiw.
every one is asking and you should answer! that is how this website goes.

You say your opinion = every one asks you questions to understand more of your point of veiw = you answering their questions with logic and with confidence = they see your point of veiw and fight it with their own point of veiws = you explain ALOT MORE = every one is happy.

as you can see no one is picking on you! every one is just wanting more info about your point in veiw.

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

ok, frost dragons are a very rare breed. they spit a gas that is nitrogen and another compund that makes a liquid vemon. this vemon is both freezing and stinging. so it not only freezes the viticm, but stings there skin and their eyes too.

Forgotten Dragon's Ire · **Posted:** Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:20 pm

just pointing out flaw in your logic and not trying to be mean but because i thought nitrogen would be a logical choice one problem though

how key word, how, can any creature even contain nitrogen in liquid form without dieing because isn't nitrogen really really cold if someone can explain how a dragon could even contain this cold substance and still be alive and not only that but releasing it without freezing the inside of its mouth solid i would no longer see the need of making an endothermic reaction as it leaves the mouth and would agree nitrogen is the best bet

Drakel · **Posted:** Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:28 pm

you got to admit that the fun thing about dragons is that nomatter how hard you try to understand them there will always be a gap in the subject that needs to be filled

raptor · **Joined:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:41 pm **Posts:** 753

Forgotten Dragon's Ire wrote:

how, can any creature even contain nitrogen in liquid form without dieing because isn't nitrogen really really cold if someone can explain how a dragon could even contain this cold substance and still be alive and not only that but releasing it without freezing the inside of its mouth

well, Ire it is quite simple. we all know crocidles have a plug at the back of their throats that stop water from flooding their lungs. fire/water-breathing dragons have the same thing to protect their organs. ice dragons have the same thing, and a special gland to hold the chemicals they use for their ice blasts.

Falconer · **Posted:** Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:03 am

aquadraca wrote:

Forgotten Dragon's Ire wrote:

how, can any creature even contain nitrogen in liquid form without dieing because isn't nitrogen really really cold if someone can explain how a dragon could even contain this cold substance and still be alive and not only that but releasing it without freezing the inside of its mouth

well, Ire it is quite simple. we all know crocidles have a plug at the back of their throats that stop water from flooding their lungs. fire/water-breathing dragons have the same thing to protect their organs. ice dragons have the same thing, and a special gland to hold the chemicals they use for their ice blasts.

Humans have a plug too. It's called the epiglottis.

Liquid nitrogen is very cold, yes, approaching the temperatures needed. However, the question is whether it could be sprayed over a substantial distance.

Drakel · **Posted:** Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:07 am

good question Falconer yet sadly not the point. YET atleast. we are still trying to figure out what is a more possable way for a dragon to HOLD & breath out a freazing like substance WITHOUT killing itself.

Falconer · **Posted:** Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:12 am

Actually, we're not getting to that part yet. The question is whether said liquid/gas is already cold, necessitating some kind of storage means, or whether it's two inert chemicals combining, which doesn't create a need for a special pouch/gland to store them.

Forgotten Dragon's Ire · **Posted:** Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:29 am

EXACTLY

I only question the use of nitrogen as the cold agent because it is so cold and i doubt that any creature could survive that coldness being inside their bodies without being frozen solid but if you can come up with a way where it doesn't matter that nitrogen is so cold then great but until then i think it won't work

Comparatively i think two glands holding two SAFE liquids(ok not necessarily liquids) and only get cold AFTER MIXING is the best bet
The only questions we need to answer are:
1 What chemicals create a cold enough reaction when mixed?
2 Are those chemicals safe enough to store within a gland?
3 Are those chemicals easily made/obtained in nature?
4 Lastly not as important as the others yet still a factor How fast does the solution get cold?

Once we have answered these questions Drakes you will have your answer on how it is possible because the two are one and the same

But to keep ourselves on task lets answer these questions 1 at a time starting with question 1

Drakel · **Posted:** Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:05 pm

you missed a question
/\
||
question 5: can these chemical's be sprayed (SEFELY) to a target without killing itself ?

Forgotten Dragon's Ire · **Posted:** Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:07 pm

Actually i was kinda including that with the question 4How long does it take to get cold? because depending on that depends on how long the dragons has till it needs to spew it out

Drakel · **Posted:** Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:29 pm

RE: frost dragons : Forgotten question

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